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witchygal
10-21-2011, 11:44 AM
Hi everyone,

I found this forum through Baccarat Forum where Mr Ellis spoke about his system and i ended up here. I got started playing baccarat in Resort World Sentosa Singapore 2 months ago and i would like to learn more so that i can play the game better. I realized my problem and have been monitoring my progress starting from this month in a little note book.

I have been to the casino for 9 times this month and i won 5 times walking away with $250 to $300 each winning trip. However for Singaporeans we have to pay a $100 levy for entry and plus my cab fare to and fro $50 that will be a total of $150 which i have to make back to cover my trip expenses before i can see profit. That makes my profit very little and i spend around 4 to 5 hours there to make the sum if i am able to succeed.

I play $25 or $50 tables and i realized that i spend more time watching rather than betting. I do know how to read the asian baccarat trends (big eye, bead road, small road, cockroach) as taught by a friend and am currently playing with reference to the charts. However i noticed that most of the time the charts play tricks on you and they are not accurate. When i do a few paper win and the charts seems accurate and start to place my bet, the result always differs and make me lose. That makes me lose confidence as i see my chips go down. When i managed to win them back, it is painfully slow and not much progress.

Currently i am -$1000 from the 4 losing trips and i would like to play on skill and advantage by learning knowledge to win back my losses and not just playing based on luck and gamble which should never be the case.

I would like to learn the S40A system and NOR system here but i am confused. Do i have to buy the S40A at USD229.00 and NOR at USD669.00? It is pretty expensive for me. Which is a better system for beginners?

Please feel free to share your advice. Thank you.

E. Clifton Davis
10-21-2011, 03:57 PM
Welcome witchygal!

No, NOR also covers S40. Just get a NOR membership.

NOR is not nearly as expensive as NOT buying it already was and will continue to be. I can tell you would make a serious student because you are taking notes. On the home page, if you haven't already, go to the thread:

What is NOR and Why is it the best Baccarat Investment in the world?

It's on the left hand side in blue. Double click that thread title.

Read the whole thing. Also, within that thread is a blue link to a trip report. Read that too. Then decide. Meanwhile stay out of all casinos because you have no idea of what you are doing. You'll soon save enough money to join.

BTW, it is probably too quick for you at this late date but we have a Las Vegas seminar coming up on Dec 10 and one of our Malayian members is looking for someone to travel with.

If the price seems high, get a partner or two to go in with you. Just don't tell us! OH, and stay off of Baccarat Forums too. They can't help you. We can!

witchygal
10-22-2011, 04:44 AM
Thank you Mr Ellis for your quick reply.

I have read through the threads you highlighted to me and also browse through the whole forum last night and saw that there were many great reviews on your baccarat system. I also believe now that i should learn how to play properly before i step into the casino again. Like you said, we are not there to gamble (Gambling is sick), we are there to play and win. I love that and would like to be able to consistently do so.

Just to check with you which i have seen in older threads that there was a free manual for beginners? I tried looking for it and couldn't find any. Perhaps it has been taken off? I thought i could have a brief idea first before stepping into the membership program. If it has been removed and only available in the private forum, then i think i will have to purchase instead.

I would love to come to Las Vegas to meet you in person! If i can't make it for this Dec seminar, would there be another one in early 2012?

witchygal
10-22-2011, 05:33 AM
Oh i forgot that i also wanted to ask if you do include teaching asian baccarat trends in NOR system? Are they important and related to how we play baccarat or are the charts insignificant?

I noticed from my past 2 months observation in the casino that long streaks of more than 10 are very common all the time. Especially when player is stronger in the shoe, it can form a long dragon/ streak of 10 to 15 times.

E.g. From the result box under the chart (Big road- which is the main trend)
Banker win- 16
Player win - 28
Tie - 4

When i see that a certain side is stronger by nearly half of the total hands played, long streaks tend to happen. As we have about more than 50 baccarat tables to choose from in Resort World Sentosa Singapore, i can always hear people shouting "picture picture!" and crowded around 3 or 4 tables at the same time chasing streaks.

From my last trip, i saw 1 player streak of 10 followed by 1 banker 1 player 1 banker and then 7 player streak again. I am not sure whether this kind of trend is only prominent in Asia casinos or anywhere else in the world as many members have mentioned that streaks of more than 5 are not common in USA casinos. Is it due to the way they replace the decks to start a new shoe? Cos in asia it is the practice to burn one card away. Sorry for my ignorance but is the baccarat game standardized throughout the world? Are all baccarat screen (toteboard as it is termed by members in this forum) the same? Do they have all the charts? I'm sorry for asking stupid questions but i really want to play this game well.

I just want to make sure that the NOR system can allow me to apply it here in Singapore casinos and anywhere in the world. I am at this moment pretty convinced that NOR will work but i kinda need that assurance before committing to a membership.

I also agree with what you have mentioned in the thread What is NOR and Why is it the best Baccarat Investment in the world? that we lost because we are playing backwards in the game. I totally agree on that now that i reflected back. I had referred to the charts with results already shown and they only indicate or predict what the next result will be but it is only a guide. I must learn how to play forward and follow the flow of the shoe so i can safely bet my next hand (if this is the way to put it).

I hope you don't find me irritating for asking so many questions. Thank you for your kind attention Mr Ellis.

E. Clifton Davis
10-22-2011, 06:13 AM
Thank you Mr Ellis for your quick reply.

I have read through the threads you highlighted to me and also browse through the whole forum last night and saw that there were many great reviews on your baccarat system. I also believe now that i should learn how to play properly before i step into the casino again. Like you said, we are not there to gamble (Gambling is sick), we are there to play and win. I love that and would like to be able to consistently do so.

OK, that's a good start. Your head MUST be in the right place to do this successfully. We will rebuild your game from the ground up and separate mathematical FACT from fiction for you. Right now, your head is filled with both and you do not know who to listen to. But you soon will. I reiterate: stay out of the casinos for now. You will know when to go back. But first you must see this as a JOB and not a GAME.


Just to check with you which i have seen in older threads that there was a free manual for beginners? I tried looking for it and couldn't find any. Perhaps it has been taken off? I thought i could have a brief idea first before stepping into the membership program. If it has been removed and only available in the private forum, then i think i will have to purchase instead.

Yes, we still have those someplace but they are not for you. They are for people who have never played before. You are beyond that now.


I would love to come to Las Vegas to meet you in person! If i can't make it for this Dec seminar, would there be another one in early 2012?

Can't say right now but we have those on a periodic basis and we will keep you posted.

E. Clifton Davis
10-22-2011, 07:09 AM
Oh i forgot that i also wanted to ask if you do include teaching asian baccarat trends in NOR system? Are they important and related to how we play baccarat or are the charts insignificant?

I noticed from my past 2 months observation in the casino that long streaks of more than 10 are very common all the time. Especially when player is stronger in the shoe, it can form a long dragon/ streak of 10 to 15 times.

E.g. From the result box under the chart (Big road- which is the main trend)
Banker win- 16
Player win - 28
Tie - 4

When i see that a certain side is stronger by nearly half of the total hands played, long streaks tend to happen. As we have about more than 50 baccarat tables to choose from in Resort World Sentosa Singapore, i can always hear people shouting "picture picture!" and crowded around 3 or 4 tables at the same time chasing streaks.

From my last trip, i saw 1 player streak of 10 followed by 1 banker 1 player 1 banker and then 7 player streak again. I am not sure whether this kind of trend is only prominent in Asia casinos or anywhere else in the world as many members have mentioned that streaks of more than 5 are not common in USA casinos. Is it due to the way they replace the decks to start a new shoe? Cos in asia it is the practice to burn one card away. Sorry for my ignorance but is the baccarat game standardized throughout the world? Are all baccarat screen (toteboard as it is termed by members in this forum) the same? Do they have all the charts? I'm sorry for asking stupid questions but i really want to play this game well.

I just want to make sure that the NOR system can allow me to apply it here in Singapore casinos and anywhere in the world. I am at this moment pretty convinced that NOR will work but i kinda need that assurance before committing to a membership.

I also agree with what you have mentioned in the thread What is NOR and Why is it the best Baccarat Investment in the world? that we lost because we are playing backwards in the game. I totally agree on that now that i reflected back. I had referred to the charts with results already shown and they only indicate or predict what the next result will be but it is only a guide. I must learn how to play forward and follow the flow of the shoe so i can safely bet my next hand (if this is the way to put it).

I hope you don't find me irritating for asking so many questions. Thank you for your kind attention Mr Ellis.

Well first, questions do not irritate me. Not asking questions, does.

Successful Baccarat play is all about trends or biases we call them. The Asian trends - some are based in Math and some, more in superstition. To a man (or woman) Asian players familiar with both much prefer our way.

Correct, strong side is extremely important and correct again, it usually foreshadows streak. There is a simple way to exploit this which NOR will teach you. But it is not the only trend you will learn to exploit. While trends like that may seem magical to you right now they all have a basis in math which will make the magic dissipate. Sorry.

Yes, that was a good way to put it. Your English is excellent. At first, some of our terminology may confuse you. We virtually have our own Baccarat language. But some of the terms you are using actually came from us over the years. I can already see that language barrier will not be a long term problem for you. Just a few days and.....

Back in the late '80s Baccarat was completely universal right down to the card preps and shuffles. Today the rules are still universal but the card preps and shuffles are not. The tote boards, whether vertical or horizontal are all compatible with NOR.

We will show you how to make adjustments to suit the conditions at your casino. We will be asking you specific questions about your casino. Most you will know but some you likely won't. Just think of this as a little homework. It is all in your best interest. We need to get you thinking like a pro.

Ha, we will be teaching you to disregard the machine's opinion. Think of it this way - the machine works for the casino, you don't! NOR doesn't know or care what country it is playing in. Our reviews from Singapore have been excellent.

That shoe you mention: We call that an F shoe. Very common shoe type. NOR excells in F shoes. We would likely be at +30 half way through the shoe. Recognize that while casino conditions differ a little, the cards don't know or care what country they are in. And the cards don't know what color your chips are. The important thing is to play the conditions at hand. This we will teach you.

witchygal
10-22-2011, 07:27 AM
Well first, questions do not irritate me. Not asking questions, does.

Successful Baccarat play is all about trends or biases we call them. The Asian trends - some are based in Math and some, more in superstition. To a man (or woman) Asian players familiar with both much prefer our way.

Correct, strong side is extremely important and correct again, it usually foreshadows streak. There is a simple way to exploit this which NOR will teach you. But it is not the only trend you will learn to exploit.

Yes, that was a good way to put it. Your English is excellent. At first, some of our terminology may confuse you. We virtually have our own Baccarat language. But some of the terms you are using actually came from us over the years. I can already see that language barrier will not be a long term problem for you. Just a few days and.....

Back in the late '80s Baccarat was completely universal right down to the card preps and shuffles. Today the rules are still universal but the card preps and shuffles are not. The tote boards, whether vertical or horizontal are all compatible with NOR.

We will show you how to make adjustments to suit the conditions at your casino. We will be asking you specific questions about your casino. Most you will know but some you likely won't. Just think of this as a little homework. It is all in your best interest. We need to get you thinking like a pro.

Ha, we will be teaching you to disregard the machine's opinion. Think of it this way - the machine works for the casino, you don't! NOR doesn't know or care what country it is playing in. Our reviews from Singapore have been excellent.

That shoe you mention: We call that an F shoe. Very common shoe type. NOR excells in F shoes. We would likely be at +30 half way through the shoe. Recognize that while casino conditions differ a little, the cards don't know or care what country they are in. And the cards don't know what color your chips are. The important thing is to play the conditions at hand. This we will teach you.

Thank you so much for your clear explanation Mr Ellis.

Now i am motivated to get into the private forum and start learning. I do admit that the baccarat language has got me confused a little but i will try my best to learn it (especially codes for the various system) I will not step into the casino until i am sure of how i am going to approach the game. I need to gain knowledge first.

Let me fund my Paypal with some money and i'll sign up these 2 days. See you on the inside! =)

E. Clifton Davis
10-22-2011, 10:58 AM
Thank you so much for your clear explanation Mr Ellis.

Now i am motivated to get into the private forum and start learning. I do admit that the baccarat language has got me confused a little but i will try my best to learn it (especially codes for the various system) I will not step into the casino until i am sure of how i am going to approach the game. I need to gain knowledge first.

Let me fund my Paypal with some money and i'll sign up these 2 days. See you on the inside! =)

OK, once in go to the thread The NOR Approach and its Q&A thread. Also learn our vertical score card method. You are likely used to a horizontal card. All our abbrieviations are very simplistic and you'll be in the thick of things in no time.

E. Clifton Davis
10-22-2011, 03:16 PM
Thank you Mr Ellis. I just funded my Paypal but it takes 2 business day to clear. It's saturday night in Singapore so i guess i have to wait till next wednesday =(

My Paypal only have USD370.00 at the moment and i wonder if i can pay this first and start learning and make up the balance in a few days? If not i will wait then. =(

Ha, no worries! (That's Australian.) This will give you a chance to take your Singapore hat OFF and put my BTC International hat ON. Now, forget everything you think you ever knew about Baccarat. FORGET IT! I want to start with a clean slate!

Once you are in, the guys and I are momentarily playing a blind shoe on the thread "Don't try this at home." You might want to look in on that game just for the fun of it. Yeah, it's just for fun, sort of. BUT you will see why some of the best players in the world make the bets they do. We all explain our bets as we go.

Hey Witchygal, this all reminds me of a Bac tournament that BF put on a little while back. BTC had only two entries. We took first and second place! My two students only one unit apart.

We have to keep proving it, and proving it and proving it again. Eventually it gets a little tiresome. Watch my lips: We are the best there is!

That AC trip: NOBODY ELSE IN THE WORLD plays to a 26% P.A. So, you know what I was doing? I was simply proving it one more freaking time. You get me? Pay attention and you will learn a lot. One thing I like about Asian students - they pay attention!

OK, OK, OK, we've already got your money. For me, that is not what it is about. I don't need your money! Here is what I want. I WANT YOU TO WIN! DON'T let me down! Listen to these other guys- not just me. They know what they are talking about.

YOU CAN DO THIS! You've got the best help there is now! And welcome aboard!

witchygal
10-23-2011, 08:28 AM
Hang on, Keith was probably not there to activate you. I'll call him this morning.

Thank you Dr. Ellis. I'm feeling excited already! =)

witchygal
10-23-2011, 10:08 AM
OK, check now.

Thank you. I'm in! Now going through the threads.

Really kinda overwhelmed by the information inside. Feel a bit like a lost lamb.

E. Clifton Davis
10-23-2011, 12:11 PM
Just hang in there. EVERYBODY goes through that learning curve at first regardless their native language.

Ha, it so happens I was talking to Singapore by phone just this morning. Small world!

BTW, here is the question I was asking in Singapore. You might as well give me your opinion too.

Should we also provide the whole forum in another language or do you think most people there are already adept enough at computer translation? And if yes, which other language would be best?

BTW 2: We have at least 3 vocal members in Sinapore right now and quite a few in Malaysia. By vocal I mean members who actually post. Only about a forth actually post. I think this is due mostly to a lack of confidence in English. But BTC members have gotten very used to this and can understand almost any English attempt.

Also because many forums are not nearly as friendly as we are. People get afraid to post on many forums for fear of being ridiculed. That NEVER happens at BTC but not because we have any rules against it. We don't need any rules. Members just don't do it. We seem to draw a higher class of people at BTC. It has always been that way here.

witchygal
10-23-2011, 01:13 PM
Just hang in there. EVERYBODY goes through that learning curve at first regardless their native language.

Ha, it so happens I was talking to Singapore by phone just this morning. Small world!

BTW, here is the question I was asking in Singapore. You might as well give me your opinion too.

Should we also provide the whole forum in another language or do you think most people there are already adept enough at computer translation? And if yes, which other language would be best?

BTW 2: We have at least 3 vocal members in Sinapore right now and quite a few in Malaysia. By vocal I mean members who actually post. Only about a forth actually post. I think this is due mostly to a lack of confidence in English. But BTC members have gotten very used to this and can understand almost any English attempt.

Also because many forums are not nearly as friendly as we are. People get afraid to post on many forums for fear of being ridiculed. That NEVER happens at BTC but not because we have any rules against it. We don't need any rules. Members just don't do it. We seem to draw a higher class of people at BTC. It has always been that way here.

Wow i can say that there are real gems inside the private forum! I have been pouring through them the past 3 hours! Great stuff!

Just feel that some of the topics are not arranged in step by step order for newbies in the NOR forum (which was why i mentioned that i was lost lol). I actually went to Universal Baccarat to dig for S40 and F2 manuals but now i already know how to chart vertically and it is easy!

Well Dr. Ellis i personally feel that the forum is fine in English as people from Singapore can understand it pretty well. Perhaps if you wanna target an older age group from Singapore (above 50 years old) mandarin may be an alternative.

I hope that members from Singapore can post too and i can make some new friends too from my own country and we can discuss and share tips too. I need more guidance from seniors here.

harrican
12-27-2011, 09:03 PM
Hi witchygal and dr ellis, i am also from Singapore and am interested also to learn. How is your progress so far witchygal? :)

witchygal
12-28-2011, 11:44 AM
Hi Harrican,

Great to know another Singaporean playing baccarat. I'm fine. Even though we all have losing days but overall i'm still winning using NOR. After playing for the past 2 months, i feel that table execution takes practice because we tend to be affected by nerves, fear, people around us. The more you practice, the better you get. Hope to see you in the private forum.

harrican
12-29-2011, 11:37 PM
Hi Harrican,

Great to know another Singaporean playing baccarat. I'm fine. Even though we all have losing days but overall i'm still winning using NOR. After playing for the past 2 months, i feel that table execution takes practice because we tend to be affected by nerves, fear, people around us. The more you practice, the better you get. Hope to see you in the private forum.

Good to know that :) I will consider :)

harrican
12-30-2011, 11:28 PM
I have read thru as much as I can in the past few days. I have decided to join :) See you folks inside!

E. Clifton Davis
12-31-2011, 08:39 AM
I have read thru as much as I can in the past few days. I have decided to join :) See you folks inside!

Let me be the first: Welcome aboard harrican! You'll be glad you did!

Ellis

harrican
12-31-2011, 09:06 AM
Let me be the first: Welcome aboard harrican! You'll be glad you did!

Ellis

Thanks :), just waiting for activation now.. reading the manual in the meantime.. quite a bit to absorb

witchygal
12-31-2011, 09:08 AM
Welcome Harrican! Hope to see you soon!

E. Clifton Davis
12-31-2011, 09:19 AM
Thanks :), just waiting for activation now.. reading the manual in the meantime.. quite a bit to absorb

harrican, let me warn you in advance. Everything will seem collidescopic and confusing the first few days until you catch on to our universal Baccarat language and learn to navigate our forum. But that learning curve only lasts a few days. Hang in there. Don't be afraid to ask questions. There is no such thing as a stupid question in OUR forum. Everyone is here to help you!

harrican
12-31-2011, 10:50 AM
harrican, let me warn you in advance. Everything will seem collidescopic and confusing the first few days until you catch on to our universal Baccarat language and learn to navigate our forum. But that learning curve only lasts a few days. Hang in there. Don't be afraid to ask questions. There is no such thing as a stupid question in OUR forum. Everyone is here to help you!

Thanks, I will ask once I figure out what to ask :)

Raymond
02-28-2012, 11:04 AM
Hi Witchygal and Harrican,

glad to know more and more singaporeans in this forum and also happy to see good progress in your newly learnt skill. care to do a catch-up? feel free to PM me to exchange contact details.

Raymond

witchygal
02-28-2012, 01:51 PM
Hi Raymond,

Welcome to BTC!

Anora75
03-15-2012, 07:19 AM
Hello,

Welcome to this forum hope you will enjoy here....

Fang65
03-20-2012, 11:50 AM
Hi ALL,

I am a fellow singaporean as well.

I am interested in purchasing the NOR system can i ask how to go about it??

Thanks!!

witchygal
03-20-2012, 12:04 PM
Hi Fang,

You can just click the purchase button on top and choose NOR Professional Baccarat Forum and Manual. After you make payment by Paypal, wait for Keith to activate you and you will get access to the private forum.

E. Clifton Davis
03-20-2012, 01:04 PM
Thanks Witchy!

Fang65
03-26-2012, 11:00 AM
Thanks Witchy!

Hey Witchy girl!

I have already purchased the system.

Hey Ellis can I check when will i be activated to view the private forum?

cheers!

fang

E. Clifton Davis
03-26-2012, 04:29 PM
Hey Witchy girl!

I have already purchased the system.

Hey Ellis can I check when will i be activated to view the private forum?

cheers!

fang

First, welcome fang! Hmmm, I think. Fang and Witchy. You guys have a way with names.

Keith activates you and it usually doesn't take long. You are probably already on but I'll check with him just in case.

axlzz
03-26-2012, 09:47 PM
Hello all, I am also from Singapore, just started playing Baccarat. just like to know more skills n knowledge about Baccarat.. :)

Fang65
03-26-2012, 11:43 PM
ahahahahha Thanks for the welcome!

Yup have already been activated! And now looking through the forum.. there is so much to read and studied!!

Thanks again!




First, welcome fang! Hmmm, I think. Fang and Witchy. You guys have a way with names.

Keith activates you and it usually doesn't take long. You are probably already on but I'll check with him just in case.

E. Clifton Davis
03-27-2012, 05:01 AM
Hello all, I am also from Singapore, just started playing Baccarat. just like to know more skills n knowledge about Baccarat.. :)

You came to the right place axlzz. Have you joined the private forum yet? If not, posts in this thread will tell you how. You can't learn much in the public forum where this thread is.

For both you and Fang you'll be a little lost the first couple days while you learn our Baccarat lingo and how to navigate in this huge forum. Before you get into your NOR manual, I recommend you both start with the thread in the NOR forum called OvR Net Betting for random Cards. There are good illustrations of how to play this NB system and good play by play explanations. Plus all the other members are learning this new system at the same time. It is a good place to start but then you want to get right into your NOR manual.

When they first started everyone on this forum was as confused as you are right now. But we will have you playing good Baccarat in no time.

Fang65
03-27-2012, 08:08 AM
Hi Ellis,

Thanks! It's really confusing and
There is a lot of jargons and terms that I find it hard
To understand ahhaha.

I have look through the glossary list but Sitll finds some terms
Not available. Like for example what is 1s and 2s ?

I think there is a lot of questions I want to ask but Sitll not sure
Wat to ask... Hahahah

Thanks for the suggestions on what to start reading
I will do that first!
Thanks again!

Cheers,

Fang



You came to the right place axlzz. Have you joined the private forum yet? If not, posts in this thread will tell you how. You can't learn much in the public forum where this thread is.

For both you and Fang you'll be a little lost the first couple days while you learn our Baccarat lingo and how to navigate in this huge forum. Before you get into your NOR manual, I recommend you both start with the thread in the NOR forum called OvR Net Betting for random Cards. There are good illustrations of how to play this NB system and good play by play explanations. Plus all the other members are learning this new system at the same time. It is a good place to start but then you want to get right into your NOR manual.

When they first started everyone on this forum was as confused as you are right now. But we will have you playing good Baccarat in no time.

E. Clifton Davis
03-27-2012, 10:02 AM
Hi Ellis,

Thanks! It's really confusing and
There is a lot of jargons and terms that I find it hard
To understand ahhaha.

I have look through the glossary list but Sitll finds some terms
Not available. Like for example what is 1s and 2s ?

I think there is a lot of questions I want to ask but Sitll not sure
Wat to ask... Hahahah

Thanks for the suggestions on what to start reading
I will do that first!
Thanks again!

Cheers,

Fang

Fang, the thing is don't be afraid to ask questions. There is no such thing as a dumb question on this forum.

We prefer a vertical score card. A 1 means one Bank or Player in a row. A 2 is 2 Banks or Players in a row. A 3 is.....

A straight run is a bunch of Banks or players in a row: BBBBB PPPPP

A ZZ run (Zig Zag) is like P B P B P B

A TT run (Terrible Twos) is like PP BB PP BB

A 212 run is like P BB P BB P BB

See, you already know what 6 things mean. Now you only have 6994 to go.

Fang65
03-27-2012, 11:46 AM
Thank u Ellis for your fast and prompt reply!
Now I understand !!

Really appreciate it! ok another 1 question in regards to the scorecard
Why is there so many boxes in between the P B. and score? What are they for?
And what are modes?

I am Sitll very unclear with a lot of things maybe bombarding u with
A lots of questions !!

Stay tuned!!

Whahahaha

Thanks!



Fang, the thing is don't be afraid to ask questions. There is no such thing as a dumb question on this forum.

We prefer a vertical score card. A 1 means one Bank or Player in a row. A 2 is 2 Banks or Players in a row. A 3 is.....

A straight run is a bunch of Banks or players in a row: BBBBB PPPPP

A ZZ run (Zig Zag) is like P B P B P B

A TT run (Terrible Twos) is like PP BB PP BB

A 212 run is like P BB P BB P BB

See, you already know what 6 things mean. Now you only have 6994 to go.

E. Clifton Davis
03-27-2012, 12:11 PM
Thank u Ellis for your fast and prompt reply!
Now I understand !!

Really appreciate it! ok another 1 question in regards to the scorecard
Why is there so many boxes in between the P B. and score? What are they for?
And what are modes?

I am Sitll very unclear with a lot of things maybe bombarding u with
A lots of questions !!

Stay tuned!!

Whahahaha

Thanks!

Hey Fang, Relax! I was just kidding about the 6996. Hell it can't be more than 4 or 5000.

Usually we don't need those extra columns but sometimes we use them for various counts or other notes.

Modes define when we start betting on a run (OTR) versus against the run. There is a whole chapter explaining Modes in your NOR Manual.

axlzz
03-29-2012, 03:06 AM
Hi all,

I have just started to play baccarat on a online website. I was experimenting a few systems like pitboss's strategy (from baccarat forums) and flat betting on banking.

So far, i am using pitboss's strategy: ie $50 per bet, Win: +4 units to +6 units, Loss: - 8 units. Till date i have lost around 18units over 3 days.

Not sure if i am getting it correct or i m just that unlucky.

E. Clifton Davis
03-29-2012, 06:40 AM
Hi axlzz. I happen to be familiar with it. Actually pitboss did well to come up with this strategy on his own. It is basic OTB4L which was developed right here at BTC long before pitboss was of age. But the basic way pitboss plays it is purely mechanical and therefore mathematically can't win. This is not opinion, it is pure mathematical fact. Pitboss's way of playing it will beat what we call Neutral shoes which comprise about 1/3 of all shoes. But it loses to the Chop third and the Streak third. You probably know that by now.

Flat betting on Bank also mathematically can't win. Commission more than offsets the Bank edge.

What you need is our advanced form of OTB4L which responds to the intricacies of the shoe at hand. Then it will win about half of all shoes which still falls short. So then you need to learn The best Chop system, S40, to beat the Chop third and the best Streak system, F, to win the streak third. Then you need to learn which to play in the shoe at hand. That is NOR.

While the two systems you yet need to learn are even simpler than OTB4L you'll find that, unlike BF, you get all the help you need here at BTC. And you'll be refreshed by the much friendlier atmosphere at BTC as well as the higher quality players and comradery.

Once you are on stream with all that you will learn other advanvced systems for you quiver, and many, many professional tricks of the trade. You can't win every single shoe but you can improve your win % much higher than it is right now. You will also learn advanced cash managment to keep your occassional losses as low as possible and your wins as frequent and as high as possible through advanced betting strategy selection.

BTW, there is no such thing as luck. You create your own, good or bad. But you need to learn how to consistently create good luck. Tricks like table selection and system selection. Once you are fully aboard at BTC you'll begin to think of BF as just a bad dream. Enough said?

BTW, when playing on line, stick to the live game sites.

To learn more about NOR, go to the top of this page and hit Blogs. Then go to the right and hit this blog:

What Is NOR and Why Is It The Best Baccarat Investment In The World (E. Clifton Davis)

E. Clifton Davis 03-28-2012

Raymond
03-29-2012, 09:52 AM
welcome to BTC too....though i have not put what i learnt into practice but i feel it is pretty much a workable system.

axlzz
03-29-2012, 10:56 AM
Yah, this will be quite a big investment for me.. I am still uncertain.. lol.. till date i am like -22 units now... :(

witchygal
03-29-2012, 12:38 PM
Welcome to BTC axlzz! Ironically you are down -22 and i just made +22 yesterday and today!

Raymond hope to see you soon!

axlzz
03-29-2012, 10:29 PM
Yah, i hope to get more juice out of it.. But I am totally clueless on where to start?

Trying to learn the jargon first, then the system,

E. Clifton Davis
03-30-2012, 08:39 AM
Yah, i hope to get more juice out of it.. But I am totally clueless on where to start?

Trying to learn the jargon first, then the system,

There is a Glossary somewhere but it needs to be updated. Just make a list axlzz. We can start a new Glossary. Ha, just a list of terms. I'll do the definitions.

I suggest start with the OvR Net Betting for random shoes since that is where most of us are at the moment. But in your spare time, study your NOR manual and the sample shoes provided.

All those damn circles actually mean something.

Fang65
04-02-2012, 02:01 AM
Thanks to witchygal, i have managed to understand this NOR approach better!

But still find difficulty in grasping this..

I read in the forum somewhere that we let the shoe determine the mode u are going to be in..

but how do we going to do that? do we take reference from previous few plays before?
or??

Thanks for any help...

bluetri
04-02-2012, 06:56 AM
Fang, the mode is determined by the third bet rule...if your third bet (1,2,3) won then you are in the right mode. (Mode 2 or mode3) If you lost the third bet then switch modes

E. Clifton Davis
04-03-2012, 07:56 AM
Fang, the mode is determined by the third bet rule...if your third bet (1,2,3) won then you are in the right mode. (Mode 2 or mode3) If you lost the third bet then switch modes

Good job bluetri but if Fang didn't get it from the Modes chapter of his NOR manual or from the sample shoes provided, I thinking he's still not getting it.

Fang, Mode selection is done the same way for all 3 NOR systems but you do have an option if you find that where you are playing our 3rd bet Mode selection method in not consistent enough.

I'll explain the normal way first and then the optional way.

First, what do we mean by your third bet?

In all 3 NOR systems your 3rd bet is your bet after 2 losses in a row. When you lose those 2 bets it is always against a run. So the question is, do I bet straight down for my 3rd bet or do I bet across on the run (OTR)?

Unless we already know the Mode because we started mid shoe, we usually make this 3rd bet a 0 bet to test the water to determine our Mode. But, whatever we make the bet we actually put it in on our score card even if it is a 0 bet. Usually we start in Mode 2 so usually we place our bet OTR, on the run. If it wins, we have confirmed that Mode 2 is the correct Mode to start this shoe. But if it loses, we have confirmed that mode 3 is the right Mode to start.

Mode 2 simply means we wait for only 2 losing bets before going OTR.
Mode 3 means we wait for 3 losing bets before going OTR

Unless we know better from prior shoes at our table or from this shoe thus far (some players don't start until they already know the right Mode), we prefer to try Mode 2 first simply because Mode 2 is more conservative than Mode 3. ( the highest bet for Mode 2 is a 3 bet. The highest bet for Mode 3 is a 4 bet.)

Recognize that when playing OTB4L we must determine the Mode twice, once for straight runs and once for ZZ runs. They aren't always the same Mode.

Also recognize that nothing says you MUST bet OTR at all. You may be in a shoe that is so consistently choppy there are so few straight runs that it would be foolish to bet on them at all. Here we would play S40 and simply stop betting after 3 losing bets straight down (or even 4) and wait for the run to end and then continue on normally.

The OTR progression option:

We have days where we simply can't seem to pick the right Mode. Here we are best off to stay in Mode 2. When the first OTR bet comes up we make it a 1 bet. If it wins, fine, we follow the normal rules. But if our 1 OTR bet loses, next time an OTR bet comes up we make it a 2 bet, and if that loses, next time a 3 bet.

If all 3 OTR bets lose, it means that your Modes were consistent after all and it was a mistake to go to the optional way. But, with a little experience, this will become a rare mistake.

In streaky shoes you always want to attempt OTR bets. But in very choppy shoes (S40) you may be better off to forget OTR bets. But you don't just continue to bet opposites either. Stop betting after 3 or 4 losing Op bets and wait for the run to end.

I think if you use this post for reference while you play a few practice shoes, you'll soon have it all down pat.

But, just in case, don't be afraid to ask questions.

All of our rules have a reason behind them. Sooner or later you'll begin to understand the reasons. Then it all becomes a heck of a lot easier.

ddbcinti
04-03-2012, 06:35 PM
Ellis,
Your last post just hit me over the head. It is funny how I have been over and over the NOR manual and still missed important information. You wrote, "Recognize that when playing OTB4L we must determine the Mode twice, once for straight runs and once for ZZ runs. They aren't always the same mode."
This really turned on a light bulb for me. At the Atlantic City seminar I had mentioned that the modes keep switching back and forth from 2 to 3 and I can't seem to stay in the right mode. Maybe it was switching because I was playing OTB4L and I was encountering straight runs and ZZ runs.

I can't wait to practice playing with this new idea to see if it solves my problem. Thanks. I tend to be rather quiet on the forum, but I am always following posts and trying to learn as much as I can. And even though I have been over and over this stuff, once in a while I stumble over a new idea that makes a lot of the pieces suddenly fall into place for me!

Thanks again,
db

Fang65
04-04-2012, 03:27 AM
ohhhhh...

thanks for ya kind replies, bluetri and ellis...

sorry i am rather slow on the uptake and understanding how it works...

But really appreciate ya patience!

I have tried to practise a shoe by myself,
initially it was streaky like this for example

PPPPBBBBBBBPBBBBBPPB

then it changes to PPBBPPBB

as i was practicing using my iphone app

So for the initial part i used F system as it was strong side on the B when it changes to PPBB i lost quite a bit

from this can i switch the system to s40?? and from where i can determine the trigger to switch the system?

thanks..

cheers





Good job bluetri but if Fang didn't get it from the Modes chapter of his NOR manual or from the sample shoes provided, I thinking he's still not getting it.

Fang, Mode selection is done the same way for all 3 NOR systems but you do have an option if you find that where you are playing our 3rd bet Mode selection method in not consistent enough.

I'll explain the normal way first and then the optional way.

First, what do we mean by your third bet?

In all 3 NOR systems your 3rd bet is your bet after 2 losses in a row. When you lose those 2 bets it is always against a run. So the question is, do I bet straight down for my 3rd bet or do I bet across on the run (OTR)?

Unless we already know the Mode because we started mid shoe, we usually make this 3rd bet a 0 bet to test the water to determine our Mode. But, whatever we make the bet we actually put it in on our score card even if it is a 0 bet. Usually we start in Mode 2 so usually we place our bet OTR, on the run. If it wins, we have confirmed that Mode 2 is the correct Mode to start this shoe. But if it loses, we have confirmed that mode 3 is the right Mode to start.

Mode 2 simply means we wait for only 2 losing bets before going OTR.
Mode 3 means we wait for 3 losing bets before going OTR

Unless we know better from prior shoes at our table or from this shoe thus far (some players don't start until they already know the right Mode), we prefer to try Mode 2 first simply because Mode 2 is more conservative than Mode 3. ( the highest bet for Mode 2 is a 3 bet. The highest bet for Mode 3 is a 4 bet.)

Recognize that when playing OTB4L we must determine the Mode twice, once for straight runs and once for ZZ runs. They aren't always the same Mode.

Also recognize that nothing says you MUST bet OTR at all. You may be in a shoe that is so consistently choppy there are so few straight runs that it would be foolish to bet on them at all. Here we would play S40 and simply stop betting after 3 losing bets straight down (or even 4) and wait for the run to end and then continue on normally.

The OTR progression option:

We have days where we simply can't seem to pick the right Mode. Here we are best off to stay in Mode 2. When the first OTR bet comes up we make it a 1 bet. If it wins, fine, we follow the normal rules. But if our 1 OTR bet loses, next time an OTR bet comes up we make it a 2 bet, and if that loses, next time a 3 bet.

If all 3 OTR bets lose, it means that your Modes were consistent after all and it was a mistake to go to the optional way. But, with a little experience, this will become a rare mistake.

In streaky shoes you always want to attempt OTR bets. But in very choppy shoes (S40) you may be better off to forget OTR bets. But you don't just continue to bet opposites either. Stop betting after 3 or 4 losing Op bets and wait for the run to end.

I think if you use this post for reference while you play a few practice shoes, you'll soon have it all down pat.

But, just in case, don't be afraid to ask questions.

All of our rules have a reason behind them. Sooner or later you'll begin to understand the reasons. Then it all becomes a heck of a lot easier.

E. Clifton Davis
04-04-2012, 08:35 AM
ohhhhh...

thanks for ya kind replies, bluetri and ellis...

sorry i am rather slow on the uptake and understanding how it works...

But really appreciate ya patience!

I have tried to practise a shoe by myself,
initially it was streaky like this for example

PPPPBBBBBBBPBBBBBPPB

then it changes to PPBBPPBB

as i was practicing using my iphone app

So for the initial part i used F system as it was strong side on the B when it changes to PPBB i lost quite a bit

from this can i switch the system to s40?? and from where i can determine the trigger to switch the system?

thanks..

cheers

Fang, everyone is slow starting out. OK your shoe went from nearly pure streak to the TT's. TT is what we call PP BB PP BB.

You were right to start with F. But then in the TT's, you would have been better off to switch to OTB4L because it wins every bet in the TT's while S40 only breaks even. Another option would be F Mode 3 since the shoe started so streaky.

This is why we list the likes and dislikes of each system in your manual. But this is all basic stuff that will become second nature to you after a little experience.

E. Clifton Davis
04-04-2012, 08:39 AM
Ellis,
Your last post just hit me over the head. It is funny how I have been over and over the NOR manual and still missed important information. You wrote, "Recognize that when playing OTB4L we must determine the Mode twice, once for straight runs and once for ZZ runs. They aren't always the same mode."
This really turned on a light bulb for me. At the Atlantic City seminar I had mentioned that the modes keep switching back and forth from 2 to 3 and I can't seem to stay in the right mode. Maybe it was switching because I was playing OTB4L and I was encountering straight runs and ZZ runs.

I can't wait to practice playing with this new idea to see if it solves my problem. Thanks. I tend to be rather quiet on the forum, but I am always following posts and trying to learn as much as I can. And even though I have been over and over this stuff, once in a while I stumble over a new idea that makes a lot of the pieces suddenly fall into place for me!

Thanks again,
db

Sometimes it takes several tries on the switch for the light bulb to turn on.

BTW, At seminars, introduce yourself with your user name so I'll know who you are.

sesame5
05-30-2012, 12:49 PM
Hi, im also from singapore.
i chanced upon this forum when surfing the net but somehow i still not convinced in purchasing the product, probably because of the price.

though i been playing baccarat online and not casino as i can't access SG casino due to restriction. My question is whether this NOR system does work on online casino like BetInternet. Im interested to learn more but at the same time need to find out more detail as well.

hope you can guide me along with this.

E. Clifton Davis
06-01-2012, 08:25 AM
Hi, im also from singapore.
i chanced upon this forum when surfing the net but somehow i still not convinced in purchasing the product, probably because of the price.

though i been playing baccarat online and not casino as i can't access SG casino due to restriction. My question is whether this NOR system does work on online casino like BetInternet. Im interested to learn more but at the same time need to find out more detail as well.

hope you can guide me along with this.

Right, it's hard to believe that something that cheap could do you that much good. But just as many members here have reported, most pay for their entry fee their first time or two in the casino.

Make sure you stick to live game on line casinos. You might even find that NOR does even better on line than it does in your local Singapore casinos with their preshuffled cards. But NOR gives your Singapore casinos a good run for their money.

BTW, we are currently teaching another approach called NB especially for Singapore players and preshuffled cards. That course is also included in your entry fee.